Ditto, that was one tough, nasty Lefty. Fairly handy with the bat, too. His ‘72 inaugural season in Philly was dazzling. And his media boycott was epic-“But it made me concentrate better. And the irony is that they wrote better stuff without access to my quotes.” What aboot Braves great & winningest Lefty in MLB, Warren Spahn?
I’m biased towards Jim Palmer, mainly because he had Earl Weaver as his manager for most of his career. “The only thing Earl knows about pitching is he couldn’t hit it” is one of the greatest baseball quotes of all time!
Great list, but I saw both live and I would swap places for Ryan and Johnson. Ryan is somehow underrated relative to what he accomplished. Having said that, I remember watching Gibson and was told by my father he had suffered from severe asthma and breathing difficulties. I couldn't believe it...but the Primatene Mist ads proved it. That counted for me. I've been biased in favor of Bob since.
Somewhat related…Jane Levy’s book “A Lefty’s Legacy” about Sandy Koufax is one of the best books I have ever read. For anybody who was not lucky enough to see him pitch (or for those who were) it is an incredible portrait of an amazing athlete
I am not a young nerd salivating to tell people that some random pitcher from the Braves is better than Nolan Ryan: but it must be said that Nolan Ryan was a pitcher of immense strengths and weaknesses. He is the all time leader in strikeouts, and the all time leader in walks. Neither record is particularly close. Ryan, in many ways, was unhittable at his best, but he was also wild and threw a ton of wild pitches. He's clearly one of the best ever, but I am skeptical he's top 10.
So tough with these lists when crossing different “eras” y’know. Love the analysis.
I must say though! I believe Pedro is the best of all time, coming from a Yankee fan. The era he was in was so hitter friendly and he was just flat out dominant.
If you're excluding Clemens because of the steroid accusations, fine - that's your prerogative (even if II'd disagree). But you should say so, because otherwise this list just looks ridiculous without him.
Gotcha. Substack slotted this post into my feed (back in February, when I originally commented) and I hope you’ll forgive me for not having gone all the way back to the beginning and read everything else first.
Again, your prerogative not to include Clemens on that basis. But I do wonder how confident you are that no one else on this list used PEDs.
In your analysis, where did Jim Palmer rank? I am NOT suggesting he be on the top ten, but as the cornerstone of Earl Weaver’s rotation, was he near the top?
Not a fan of sabremetrics and all its derivatives. “I was there” test is a good one.
1. I don’t know how Lefty Grove is left off of any top ten list.
2. Same with Whitey Ford. 1950 thru 1960 Casey Stengel didn’t have “a rotation”. He had good pitchers and one great one - Ford. He would jumble his starters pitching them here and there against various opponents at various locales for various reasons. Whitey Ford was invariably pitched against the toughest opponents. Yet, his winning percentage was one of the best. Beginning in 1961, Ralph Houk put him in a rotation… pitching every fourth day. He was 25-4, 3.21 with a Cy Young. He followed that with 17-8, 2.90 in 1962; 24-7, 2.74 in 1963; 17-6, 2.13 in 1964. He was the greatest pitcher on the greatest juggernaut (16 seasons, 14 American League Pennants, nine World Championships) in baseball, er, sports history.
3. Sandy Koufax during his peak years (1961-1966) was THE dominant pitcher in bsseball.
4. From 1977-1985, the best lefthanded pitcher (arguably the best pitcher, period) in major league baseball was Ron Guidry. That included the greatest single season, 1978, of any pitcher ever.
5. Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale were the most feared pitchers of their era. There were NO chest pounding antics by any idiot that homered against them. If you were lucky enough - and I mean ‘lucky’ - to hit a HR against them you ran the bases almost apologetically and could hardly wait to get back in the dugout.
Koufax is too high. While his 4 year peak is unbelievable he doesn't have a great 7 year peak because of the injury. He might be a top five all time but he does not have a top five career. The injury happened. Its almost impossible to argue Koufax had a better career than Randy Johnson or Bob Gibson in my opinion.
Steve Carlton??? Should not only be on this list he should be in the Top 5
Ditto, that was one tough, nasty Lefty. Fairly handy with the bat, too. His ‘72 inaugural season in Philly was dazzling. And his media boycott was epic-“But it made me concentrate better. And the irony is that they wrote better stuff without access to my quotes.” What aboot Braves great & winningest Lefty in MLB, Warren Spahn?
I second this comment
I’m biased towards Jim Palmer, mainly because he had Earl Weaver as his manager for most of his career. “The only thing Earl knows about pitching is he couldn’t hit it” is one of the greatest baseball quotes of all time!
Great list, but I saw both live and I would swap places for Ryan and Johnson. Ryan is somehow underrated relative to what he accomplished. Having said that, I remember watching Gibson and was told by my father he had suffered from severe asthma and breathing difficulties. I couldn't believe it...but the Primatene Mist ads proved it. That counted for me. I've been biased in favor of Bob since.
Lefty Grove is conspicuous by his absence here, though he has a legitimate case as the best pitcher of all-time.
Solid list. A few notables I expected to see include Bob Feller, Warren Spahn and Whitey Ford. Guess we need a Top 20!
Somewhat related…Jane Levy’s book “A Lefty’s Legacy” about Sandy Koufax is one of the best books I have ever read. For anybody who was not lucky enough to see him pitch (or for those who were) it is an incredible portrait of an amazing athlete
Roger Clemens?
I am not a young nerd salivating to tell people that some random pitcher from the Braves is better than Nolan Ryan: but it must be said that Nolan Ryan was a pitcher of immense strengths and weaknesses. He is the all time leader in strikeouts, and the all time leader in walks. Neither record is particularly close. Ryan, in many ways, was unhittable at his best, but he was also wild and threw a ton of wild pitches. He's clearly one of the best ever, but I am skeptical he's top 10.
Solid list. I can’t objectively argue with your logic.
So tough with these lists when crossing different “eras” y’know. Love the analysis.
I must say though! I believe Pedro is the best of all time, coming from a Yankee fan. The era he was in was so hitter friendly and he was just flat out dominant.
Love the article man.
If you're excluding Clemens because of the steroid accusations, fine - that's your prerogative (even if II'd disagree). But you should say so, because otherwise this list just looks ridiculous without him.
I wrote these Top 10s two years ago. If you go back and read the first ones, I am clear that I won’t have steroid users.
Gotcha. Substack slotted this post into my feed (back in February, when I originally commented) and I hope you’ll forgive me for not having gone all the way back to the beginning and read everything else first.
Again, your prerogative not to include Clemens on that basis. But I do wonder how confident you are that no one else on this list used PEDs.
Not faulting you for not reading. Just stating a fact as to where you can find the information.
I wrote these Top 10s two years ago. If you go back and read the first ones, I am clear that I won’t have steroid users.
Yep, he’s definitely up there. Along with Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddox, Bob Gibson and Pedro Martinez.
Mo belongs in a separate category because he was a reliever.
In your analysis, where did Jim Palmer rank? I am NOT suggesting he be on the top ten, but as the cornerstone of Earl Weaver’s rotation, was he near the top?
Not a fan of sabremetrics and all its derivatives. “I was there” test is a good one.
1. I don’t know how Lefty Grove is left off of any top ten list.
2. Same with Whitey Ford. 1950 thru 1960 Casey Stengel didn’t have “a rotation”. He had good pitchers and one great one - Ford. He would jumble his starters pitching them here and there against various opponents at various locales for various reasons. Whitey Ford was invariably pitched against the toughest opponents. Yet, his winning percentage was one of the best. Beginning in 1961, Ralph Houk put him in a rotation… pitching every fourth day. He was 25-4, 3.21 with a Cy Young. He followed that with 17-8, 2.90 in 1962; 24-7, 2.74 in 1963; 17-6, 2.13 in 1964. He was the greatest pitcher on the greatest juggernaut (16 seasons, 14 American League Pennants, nine World Championships) in baseball, er, sports history.
3. Sandy Koufax during his peak years (1961-1966) was THE dominant pitcher in bsseball.
4. From 1977-1985, the best lefthanded pitcher (arguably the best pitcher, period) in major league baseball was Ron Guidry. That included the greatest single season, 1978, of any pitcher ever.
5. Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale were the most feared pitchers of their era. There were NO chest pounding antics by any idiot that homered against them. If you were lucky enough - and I mean ‘lucky’ - to hit a HR against them you ran the bases almost apologetically and could hardly wait to get back in the dugout.
I agree with the names but would dispute the order. Nice list!
Koufax is too high. While his 4 year peak is unbelievable he doesn't have a great 7 year peak because of the injury. He might be a top five all time but he does not have a top five career. The injury happened. Its almost impossible to argue Koufax had a better career than Randy Johnson or Bob Gibson in my opinion.